gryfndor_godess (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
gryfndor_godess) wrote2011-05-16 06:05 pm
gryfndor_godess) wrote2011-05-16 06:05 pm
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Thoughts on "Out of Mind, Out of Sight"
You know what's neat? When you haven’t seen a BtVS episode in so long that you actually don’t remember the details. I liked this episode a lot the first time around, but I’d never rewatched it until today.
Buffy: I love how proactive she is in this episode. The later seasons gear so much more toward season-long arcs and run-of-the-mill monsters, rather than the “mystery-of-the-week” episodes more common in S1, that I’d forgotten how involved Buffy can get in the “searching for clues” aspect of cases (and see how easy it is to use the word ‘case’? I can’t do that much in later seasons). I like how she searches the school, investigates Cordelia’s connections, can empathize with Marcie (to a point), and doesn’t hesitate to help Cordelia. The scene where she watches Cordy’s dress fitting through the window is wonderful for how sad it is. I love Buffy’s yearning for that kind of light-hearted activity. Though I rarely rewatch early season episodes, and certainly not with enough cohesiveness to judge evolution of character, I think I like S1 Buffy better than S2 or S3 Buffy.
Willow: Buffy takes a rather commanding tone when she says, “You know, why don’t you compile a list of dead or missing kids” to Willow. I’m a stickler for manners, so the lack of a ‘please,’ etc. probably wouldn’t ping with other people, but I can understand how Willow’s resentment toward Buffy builds up over the years.
Xander:![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
gabrielleabelle ’s feminist filter has made me more aware of sexism in the show, and boy does Xander’s comment about using invisibility to guard the girls’ locker room annoy me more now than I'm sure it did five years ago. Worse, no one calls him on it. Ugh. Also, after Angel rescues him, Willow, and Giles from the basement, Xander says, “Hi! What do you want?” I can’t believe his rudeness after Angel just saved his life. Double ugh. I definitely prefer later seasons Xander.
Giles: You know, if I were an ardent slasher who always watched things with slasher goggles, the scene in the library with Angel would make me think that Buffy isn’t the only one interested in Angel. Not that I perceive anything intentional in Giles’ behavior, but he does seem to exhibit an unconscious, moth-to-the-flame attitude and intellectual hard-on for the mystique of a “good” vampire. Ironic, all things considered.
Angel: No scenes with Buffy! Always a good thing. Seriously, Angel, just go away.
Cordelia: I like Cordy as a character in the early seasons. Not because I like her or think she’s a good person (in S1 at least) but because she’s usually funny. That said, I don’t really understand what the writers were trying to do with her character. Her conversation with Buffy about trying to be popular so that she’s not alone by herself is strangely serious and, I think, genuine. However, it also indicates she’s not an airhead, which doesn’t jive with how she’s portrayed 99% of the time. I can’t tell if we’re supposed to think her lines like “It was the most traumatizing event of my life, and she’s trying to make it about her leg!” are an act as well or not. They really don’t come across as an act. And I can’t reconcile a person stupid and shallow enough to say something like that with the person who confides in Buffy and thanks her at the end. Again, this is a complaint (sort of; 70% observation, 30% complaint) about the writers rather than Cordelia herself. It reminds me of how Spike was sometimes portrayed inconsistently in the later seasons (i.e. usually his gentleman and jerk qualities coexisted in a sensible manner but then sometimes he randomly turned into King of the Jackasses around Harmony) because the writers themselves disagreed so much over his personality. Maybe there was disagreement about Cordelia, too.
-Principal Snyder makes any episode better. And in this episode at least I actually can’t fault him in his interaction with Buffy. He doesn’t want her to go in the locker room. It's a crime scene. That’s what a good principal should do. Armin Shimerman FTW!
I really like the ending with the FBI agents, but even more than that I love the conceit of the episode, that forgetting about something can actually erase it from your life, and I wish that conceit had carried through (bad world-building?). If forgetting about Marcie turned her invisible, shouldn’t people remembering and acknowledging her turn her visible again? Buffy concentrating really hard on Marcie and willing her to go Technicolor makes more sense to me than the silly “goes calm and listens” bit at the end. Oh well. Perhaps the writers thought of it and decided the FBI thing was worth the inconsistent logic.
I really like S1. It’s not as fun to watch as some seasons because so many of my favorite characters (Spike, Anya) don’t arrive until later in the show, but I really like it. I like the original foursome; I like the relative lack of Angel; I like the old-school (haha) high school setting; I like Cordy; I like the newness of it all. And I really like the tone of the episodes, how they’re treated as mysteries. The music, the shots from villains’ POV (like invisible Marcie approaching Buffy), and the tags at the end (such as the eggs in “Teacher’s Pet”) all give the episodes that little ounce of fright (for a first time viewer) that I think the later seasons lack. I also noticed that the episode wasn’t as funny as most, and I think that could apply to most of S1. It seems to me that as the series progressed it traded its mystery vibe for humor. I like the humor, but it is nice to have a “Scooby Doo” type episode, too. There’s a reason the Scoobies are called the Scoobies, and I don’t think that nickname would have cropped up if the series had started with, say, its S4 vibe. S1 is usually called campy, but I think it actually takes itself pretty seriously, and I like that.
Buffy: I love how proactive she is in this episode. The later seasons gear so much more toward season-long arcs and run-of-the-mill monsters, rather than the “mystery-of-the-week” episodes more common in S1, that I’d forgotten how involved Buffy can get in the “searching for clues” aspect of cases (and see how easy it is to use the word ‘case’? I can’t do that much in later seasons). I like how she searches the school, investigates Cordelia’s connections, can empathize with Marcie (to a point), and doesn’t hesitate to help Cordelia. The scene where she watches Cordy’s dress fitting through the window is wonderful for how sad it is. I love Buffy’s yearning for that kind of light-hearted activity. Though I rarely rewatch early season episodes, and certainly not with enough cohesiveness to judge evolution of character, I think I like S1 Buffy better than S2 or S3 Buffy.
Willow: Buffy takes a rather commanding tone when she says, “You know, why don’t you compile a list of dead or missing kids” to Willow. I’m a stickler for manners, so the lack of a ‘please,’ etc. probably wouldn’t ping with other people, but I can understand how Willow’s resentment toward Buffy builds up over the years.
Xander:
gabrielleabelle ’s feminist filter has made me more aware of sexism in the show, and boy does Xander’s comment about using invisibility to guard the girls’ locker room annoy me more now than I'm sure it did five years ago. Worse, no one calls him on it. Ugh. Also, after Angel rescues him, Willow, and Giles from the basement, Xander says, “Hi! What do you want?” I can’t believe his rudeness after Angel just saved his life. Double ugh. I definitely prefer later seasons Xander.Giles: You know, if I were an ardent slasher who always watched things with slasher goggles, the scene in the library with Angel would make me think that Buffy isn’t the only one interested in Angel. Not that I perceive anything intentional in Giles’ behavior, but he does seem to exhibit an unconscious, moth-to-the-flame attitude and intellectual hard-on for the mystique of a “good” vampire. Ironic, all things considered.
Angel: No scenes with Buffy! Always a good thing. Seriously, Angel, just go away.
Cordelia: I like Cordy as a character in the early seasons. Not because I like her or think she’s a good person (in S1 at least) but because she’s usually funny. That said, I don’t really understand what the writers were trying to do with her character. Her conversation with Buffy about trying to be popular so that she’s not alone by herself is strangely serious and, I think, genuine. However, it also indicates she’s not an airhead, which doesn’t jive with how she’s portrayed 99% of the time. I can’t tell if we’re supposed to think her lines like “It was the most traumatizing event of my life, and she’s trying to make it about her leg!” are an act as well or not. They really don’t come across as an act. And I can’t reconcile a person stupid and shallow enough to say something like that with the person who confides in Buffy and thanks her at the end. Again, this is a complaint (sort of; 70% observation, 30% complaint) about the writers rather than Cordelia herself. It reminds me of how Spike was sometimes portrayed inconsistently in the later seasons (i.e. usually his gentleman and jerk qualities coexisted in a sensible manner but then sometimes he randomly turned into King of the Jackasses around Harmony) because the writers themselves disagreed so much over his personality. Maybe there was disagreement about Cordelia, too.
-Principal Snyder makes any episode better. And in this episode at least I actually can’t fault him in his interaction with Buffy. He doesn’t want her to go in the locker room. It's a crime scene. That’s what a good principal should do. Armin Shimerman FTW!
I really like the ending with the FBI agents, but even more than that I love the conceit of the episode, that forgetting about something can actually erase it from your life, and I wish that conceit had carried through (bad world-building?). If forgetting about Marcie turned her invisible, shouldn’t people remembering and acknowledging her turn her visible again? Buffy concentrating really hard on Marcie and willing her to go Technicolor makes more sense to me than the silly “goes calm and listens” bit at the end. Oh well. Perhaps the writers thought of it and decided the FBI thing was worth the inconsistent logic.
I really like S1. It’s not as fun to watch as some seasons because so many of my favorite characters (Spike, Anya) don’t arrive until later in the show, but I really like it. I like the original foursome; I like the relative lack of Angel; I like the old-school (haha) high school setting; I like Cordy; I like the newness of it all. And I really like the tone of the episodes, how they’re treated as mysteries. The music, the shots from villains’ POV (like invisible Marcie approaching Buffy), and the tags at the end (such as the eggs in “Teacher’s Pet”) all give the episodes that little ounce of fright (for a first time viewer) that I think the later seasons lack. I also noticed that the episode wasn’t as funny as most, and I think that could apply to most of S1. It seems to me that as the series progressed it traded its mystery vibe for humor. I like the humor, but it is nice to have a “Scooby Doo” type episode, too. There’s a reason the Scoobies are called the Scoobies, and I don’t think that nickname would have cropped up if the series had started with, say, its S4 vibe. S1 is usually called campy, but I think it actually takes itself pretty seriously, and I like that.
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All males being perverts is a fairly standard trope to play for laughs. I assume no one calls him on it because it's expected and accepted as 'normal teenage boy' behavior, no different from the way he thinks about sex every few seconds.
This is rather troubling for a theoretically feminist shows, because when men internalize the belief that they can't control their own sexual urges, you get the 'logical' foundations of victim-blaming.
Also, after Angel rescues him, Willow, and Giles from the basement, Xander says, “Hi! What do you want?” I can’t believe his rudeness after Angel just saved his life. Double ugh. I definitely prefer later seasons Xander.
He's a huge jerk to Spike later on too. His behavior towards Angel and Spike seem motivated by a strong distrust of guys with dark/demonic pasts. This is of course, an ironic double standard, given his readiness to forgive Cordy for years of mistreatment, Faith for her accidental killing, Anya for her history as a vengeance demon, and Willow for trying to end the world.
no subject
Yup. I'd argue it's troubling for any show, not just feminist ones. I don't care if it's a standard trope. It's offensive, and I expect Joss to be better than that. Sigh.
Xander's aggression toward Spike doesn't bother me much because Spike was a villain when they first met and actively tried to kill them. Spike kidnapped him. It doesn't mean I like Xander's attitude, but it makes emotional/logical sense to me, and I don't begrudge him for holding a grudge. OTOH, Xander's dislike of Angel prior to Angelus seems mostly motivated by his jealousy over Buffy and the feeling that he "deserves" her because he's the 'nice,' normal human guy. I'm sure Angel being a vampire is part of it (theoretically there's Jesse angst, although the writers so so dropped the ball on that), but I think the majority of it is Xander feeling threatened in regard to Buffy and that's just petty, chauvinistic, and icky. After Angelus, he'll have legitimate reasons to hate Angel, and as with Spike, I don't blame him for that. He does have a double standard, unfortunately, but I don't think that applies to S1.
no subject
I think it's initially motivated by jealousy, but it's along the same lines of the way he feels about Owen at first (and though it's petty and icky, it's hardly chauvinistic and little different from how Willow feels jealousy towards Xander giving his attention to Buffy and later Cordy). The part where it turns into full-blown hostility is when he finds out that Angel is a vampire.
And though Xander did have legitimate reason to hate Angelus, I think it's clear that he Xander understands that Angel isn't responsible for Angelus's actions, but hates him anyway (even after Angel has helped the Scoobies substantially). His conversation with Riley in The Yoko Factor is pretty revealing in this regard:
RILEY: I take it you're not an Angel fan either?
XANDER: Well, it's not like I hate the guy. Just, you know . . the guts part of him.
RILEY: Can't blame you. But to be fair, it's not him you hate. It's the curse.
(Xander doesn't respond. )
RILEY: Right?
no subject
I'm not sure I agree that this convo indicates that Xander thinks they're two entirely different people. He hates the curse, i.e. he hates the fact that Angel is artificially constructed to be something he's inherently not and that Angel consequently gets to be the hero/get the girl etc. He knows that Angel is "different" from Angelus, but I doubt he sees the black-and-white distinction as much as Buffy. *shrugs* Or maybe I'm projecting 'cause we fans know there isn't such a b-a-w distinction. In any case, I still think Xander's hatred is justifiable (if not laudable).
no subject
no subject
Yes. One thing I've learned from watching SPN is that I actually really enjoy those kinds of stories. In Buffy S1 (and, let's be honest, quite often on SPN) the case is pretty cheesy and logic is optional, but the basic, "helping people, killing things" storyline is one I enjoy a lot. It's the reason I like "Killed by Death" so much that I put it in my top ten - it's Buffy being heroic while feeling yucky, which is like heroism squared.
boy does Xander’s comment about using invisibility to guard the girls’ locker room annoy me more now than I'm sure it did five years ago.
I have nothing good to say about Xander until probably mid-S5. And the show's ongoing misapprehension that hormones = humor pretty much drives me batty. I was going to talk about SPN a whole bunch here, because it also develops that misapprehension later on, but you haven't really seen it yet. OTOH, we just had an episode where Sam bawls a kid out for spying on the women's locker room while invisible, so the show gets it right sometimes. :)
Buffy concentrating really hard on Marcie and willing her to go Technicolor makes more sense to me than the silly “goes calm and listens” bit at the end.
Yeah. Seems like that would have been neater all around than the FBI thing, which never, ever gets brought up again.
no subject
That episode scared me more than any BtVS episode other than "Hush," but I really like it too. Buffy is brave and strong and won't give up, the villain is cleverly executed and creative, and the the episode has that "creepy-scary" vibe similar to S1. Plus, not a lot of Angel. Maybe I'll rewatch that episode sometime too...
I think I start liking Xander in S4. He's insecure about his place in life (not going to college, etc.), but he doesn't shy away from his decisions or blame others for them. Sadly, I think he's also a better person when Angel's not around. Anya and Spike both bring so much comedy to their scenes with him that I think I like Xander more by default. The hormones = humor thing can go so badly so easily. Frex, "I'm a seventeen-year-old male; linoleum makes me think of sex" is funny, un-insulting, and makes sense. But locker room comments are horrible. Ooh, that's nice about Sam. Good on him.
Arguably, the Initiative, the fact that the gov knows about and is actively involved in the demon world, is a recall to the FBI thing. At least it's not as relevant as those eggs in "Teacher's Pet" that get completely ignored.
no subject
I definitely prefer later seasons Xander.
As a huge Xander fan, I like him in all seasons. Preferring him in high school years or later years depends on my mood. I find him more interesting in the high school years because he's more complicated, and like his maturity in the later seasons. Right now, I find myself enjoying him more in the high school years, I love flawed characters. But when I read fanfics, I prefer reading about him in the later seasons since fanfic tends to use him more the show.
no subject
Xander's the kind of character where even though I have definite preferences, I never wish he weren't on the show. I love him as a character in the early seasons b/c he is quite complicated- screwing up so much but ultimately loyal and helpful and integral to the team- even if I don't like him much as a person, if you know what I mean. If a character is a jerk, like Xander sometimes is, I still appreciate him as long as I understand why he's a jerk- and I actually think most of his immaturity about Angel is understandable. I think the only time in the series where I actually, genuinely loathe him is in "Entropy" when he's slut-shaming Anya.
Love your icon! I'm not a slasher, but Xander & Spike friendship is one of my favorite platonic pairings to write.
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Thank you! Moscow_Watcher made it for me. I wish Joss gave us Spander friendship in S7, but the idiot thought it was a better idea to isolate Spike and Buffy from everybody. Idiot. I mean, even Nick and James are aware of the sexual tension *points at icon*
I think the only time in the series where I actually, genuinely loathe him is in "Entropy" when he's slut-shaming Anya.
He was such an ass here, but I hated him more in Revelation when he clearly wanted to hurt Buffy. He really needs to go to an anger management class. When he gets angry, he really gets angry. Something he learned from home obviously.
no subject
YES. I'm pretty sure they have more in common than either would like to admit. Part of the reason I adore "Him," despite the wonky, kind of misogynistic tone, is the fact that Xander and Spike work together to save the day. I plan to write a fic someday about early S7 Spuffy from Xander's POV b/c it's so strange how not too long into the season he just accepts Spike as one of the group- and yet it totally works, doesn't feel OOC at all. I also love in LMPTM how Xander instinctively claps Spike on the shoulder after chaining him up. I think you can tell that Nick and James were closer than their characters.
I've never rewatched "Revelations," so I don't remember his asshattery much, except that he sent Faith after Angel. Word on the anger management. It's a shame Joss never addressed the impact of his family issues on Xander; kind of how he never addresses Willow's control issues... We don't really get to see the Scoobies' growing up process, unfortunately.
LOVE this icon too! I wish there were more on-the-set clips like that.