Flipping a Shit (Happily)

[gryfndor_godess]

OH MY GOD.  JUST READ THE COMIC AND AM HAPPILY FLIPPING A SHIT BECAUSE IT IS PERFECT AND BEAUTIFUL, AND THE LAST TWO PAGES, ALDKFJALKDJFLADJFLAJDFK.

Like, I don't even feel the need to fic this issue because the Spuffy (and the Buffy & Dawn, Buffy & Robin, Nikki & Crowley, Spike & Dowling, EVERYTHING ELSE) already makes me so happy!  (Still writing my future!domestic-Spuffy!Andrew-baby-daddy!baby!fic, though- it's just not based around this issue.)

ETA: Although there's definitely a drabble or ficlet begging to be written with Buffy asking, "What did you need to tell me?"

Initial reactions, flailing, and word vomit below the cut:


-Did anyone else notice on the 11th page how upset she looks when she says "I guess it's obvious what I should do" and then how hopeful she looks when Robin says "I don't think it is"?  SHE WANTS THE BABY.

-SPIKE AND DOWLING ARE SO GREAT TOGETHER!  I WOULD TOTES BE OKAY IF BUFFY AND SPIKE HAD A THREESOME WITH HIM.

-BUFFY AND DAWN!!!

-Robin was really great!  Even though I sympathize with him in S7, I don't really like him that much, but I really like him here, and I love that he recognizes how his mother and Buffy are different and would approach child-rearing differently.

-I really liked Nikki and Crowley's story!!  I agree with Mari's Tumblr reaction, Crowley definitely loved her.

-Would Giles have reacted the same way as Crowley (only obviously out of parental love)?  I think he would have.

-BUFFY WANTS SPIKE TO BE HER BABY!DADDY!! ASLDKFJALDFJLADKJFLAKDJFLAKDJFLADJF.

-My heart breaks for Buffy at the end, and I LOVE that she recognizes and admits that the reasons she's not ready to have a baby are because of her ordinary human circumstances- because it means someday down the line, if she felt more stable in her job, home, etc., she could have a baby regardless of the slaying.  Obviously mileage varies in fan opinion of Buffy-as-mother, but personally I think she'd be really good at it, and I've never gotten the impression that Buffy would dislike having kids (worry about it because of slaying?  Sure, definitely, but not want kids on principle?  No; I don't see that at all), so the fact that this issue basically affirms the idea that Buffy is open to the idea of being a mother MAKES ME REALLY HAPPY.

-Also, the ending, SPUFFY!!!!!  AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH MY HEART ALFJALKFDJLKDJFLASJFLDKASJF.

-As for whether or not she'll actually go through with an abortion, I really want Buffy to have a baby (*with Spike as biological or nonbiological-baby-daddy, obvs*), but I'd also be really pleased with such a pro-choice plot, and honestly, I don't want Joss writing a baby plot.  He doesn't deserve any trust in that regard after all the abominable pregnancy plots on AtS.  The interviews I've read indicate that she will go through with an abortion, but I can't really see that happening when Joss could cause her equal or so much more pain by having her miscarry or have to give up the baby for adoption later in the season.  :/

-Calling it now, it's a girl.  Or not really calling it, I suppose, because I don't have proof to back it up, but if it's a boy I will be extremely put out because this is Buffy, feminist icon, and she should have a daughter.  Also, imagine Spike being completely wrapped around another Summers woman's finger.  HE WOULD SPOIL THAT BABY SO ROTTEN AND BE ADORABLY OVERPROTECTIVE AND CLICHED.

Comments

[tennyo-elf.livejournal.com]

I have a feeling that the writing will continue to be just as good, or will continue to get better as Andrew grows in his BtVS writing experience.

And I was talking about it being consensual. I meant if Buffy has an abortion, doesn't realize that it's Spike's, and it's the only time he can have a child (that would hurt). If Spike's the father I don't think the writers are going to have him be it through noncon (especially because of the AR). It'll be from a mutual drunkenness.

If it was anything other than consensual then...gah, that would turn me off for the season quicker than anything else. But with the way they have written it I'm not even going to consider it a possibility until the writers specifically point out that's what happened (and they could do that and surprise me). I understand the point of view and interpretation about it being rape but I feel that it's very unlikely at this point.

I don’t want to place Buffy as a victim. Buffy is always put in situations where she could be a victim and fights back, why force Buffy into the role of victim when she couldn’t fight back (by being too drunk to fight back, because we've seen her drunk before and she was still able to fight back if she needed to, Beer Bad comes to mind)? Why would the writers put her in a situation where she couldn’t fight back and was forced into this type of situation? It just doesn't fit my view of the show and would really surprise me if they went that route.

Not saying strong women can't be raped, just that if Buffy was raped I don't think they would hype up who the father is, have Buffy be happy about the baby, or completely ignore the topic in her convo with Dawn. I don't think the writers would have presented the situation the way it is if Buffy's pregnancy was from rape (that would be too huge to ignore like this IMO). I think if it was about rape then we'd have seen something by now that would indicate that it was and it would probably really highlight Buffy's decision to get an abortion. Instead we have focus on Buffy's decision being about her not being ready and Spike becoming buddies with Robert. So I don't think rape is even going to come up because I don't think we are suppose to see it as such. But the very fact so many do see it this way is one area in which the writers failed I think.

I'm assuming crash positions right now! It'll probably be worse next issue! THE CREYS!

[gryfndor-godess.livejournal.com]

It'll be from a mutual drunkenness.

I would like to think that's a likely possibility, but AtS implies that it takes a lot to get a vampire drunk, and they never showed Spike seeming even a little drunk at the party. :/ I don't think it would be in-character for Spike to take advantage of Buffy while she was drunk, but I can see Joss doing it anyway; he has few compunctions about skewing characterization when it gets in the way of his plot.

that would turn me off for the season quicker than anything else.

Ditto. I could barely deal with it if it were a different guy who had raped her. I don't think I'd even try if they had Spike rape her.

why force Buffy into the role of victim when she couldn’t fight back

I don't think the implication is that she couldn't fight back but that she wouldn't. I.e., drunk!Buffy might not have objected to the sex, but it would still be statutory rape because she would be too intoxicated to give consent.

So I don't think rape is even going to come up because I don't think we are suppose to see it as such.

See, I think it needs to be brought up, because if Buffy really doesn't remember who she slept with, then she could have been raped. It's possible that she wasn't- that she had sex while sober and blacked out afterward or that the father was also too drunk to give consent- but it's equally possible that it was rape, and the fact that the writers won't even acknowledge the possibility is really poor writing and makes it seem like they're sugarcoating the situation. Most women would probably be worried about having been taken advantage of, and the writers ignoring that facet of the situation plays into rape culture in a horrible way.

So even if it turns out to not have been rape (which is obviously what I hope), I'm still disappointed in the writers for not acknowledging the possibility when it's something real women would worry about.

[tennyo-elf.livejournal.com]

Well, my interpretation of issue 1 party Spike was that by his "I only hire cockroaches" panel he was drunk. We see him immediately start drinking from his first panel at the party (he is holding a beer bottle while telling his season 4 tale) and then with another drink as he complains about the bugs to Tumble, who seems to be talking about something else (the band) which makes me believe they had a disjointed conversation (which to me is the beginning signs of drunkenness). And that panel which he says "I only hire cockroaches" we have Buffy in the background yell "keep 'em coming bar maid" so I think the party did supply enough drinks for a vampire to get drunk.

I don't think it's in character for Spike either. I just can see Joss going for them, after having enough drinks in them both, tumbling into sex because they've been bottling up their feelings for each other for so long. Drunkenness brings out the things you try to hide while sober. I only believe that if Spike did have sex with Buffy at the party it was while they both were drunk and that something lead them to it. So no, I don't think Spike took advantage of Buffy...just when you're drunk you do stupid things or can fall into weakness. Drunk Buffy came onto drunk Spike and he couldn't say no?

I still don't and won't believe it's rape. If it was rape I think the whole thing would have been set up differently. I don't see it as (statutory) rape if drunk Buffy and drunk guy had sex, because I dunno...maybe it's wrong, but I just thought that was a normal thing. A mistake that party goers make sometimes, something that just happens. You get drunk, you see something you like and the drunk guy wants it too and in the morning you both regret, but...maybe I'm too liberal? I just don't see it as a big deal.

Now if a guy took advantage (he wasn't drunk too), yeah I get the concern and feel the same. That would be douchebagy. But again it doesn't fit with my view on the Buffy series for that to happen. I won't deny that it could happen but it feels kind of anti thesis for the series because for the same reasons I gave before. That not only was it not brought up as a reason for the abortion decision but I just feel like that would be deconstructing what Buffy stands for (Buffy, who fights against these situations time and again falls victim to rape at long last when she was too drunk to remember? That feels so off for what the series means to me). The whole set up feels more like a common party mistake of two drunken people making with the regrets (I mean that for whoever slept with Buffy, they had to have been both drunk). I get that strong women can get raped but I don't feel like that is something that Joss would put Buffy through all the way.

(I mean, he could have had Buffy raped by Xander/Angel/Spike when they tried and show her over coming that if the writers wanted to explore this topic, but they never go all the way. They have attempts made but it never happens...until now by a stranger because she was drunk? I hope I'm not coming off horribly with this, I just don't think I'm making myself clear. I just think if they were going to explore Buffy being raped they wouldn't do it like this. I could be wrong, but...like I said it just doesn't seem to fit with the series to me...For the AR re:Spike they had her have a back injury yet she still was able to kick him away, for Xander she was normal and could fight back, and for Angel they had her high on glow.)

I'm just really sorry that the writers didn't pay more attention to this angle when writing out the scenario...it's so...tasteless of them. I do think they are writing from a male point of view (not that men can't get raped). Men don't think about rape, they think "Oh god, who did I sleep with?" and they are going on from there.

I don't think they are going to bring it up and I do agree that it's a poor decision on their part, but I think we'll get flashbacks on what happened and then we'll be reassured (or disgusted enough to quite the comics).

[gryfndor-godess.livejournal.com]

We see him immediately start drinking from his first panel at the party (he is holding a beer bottle while telling his season 4 tale) and then with another drink as he complains about the bugs to Tumble

I like your analysis of it. None of the panels reminded me of his sloppy inebriation in "Entropy" (he always seemed like more of a depressed drunk than a happy drunk to me, although that could just be because he was depressed in general at the time), but I see your point in how they're consistent about showing him drinking and making strange comments that imply he's becoming more and more intoxicated.

Drunk Buffy came onto drunk Spike and he couldn't say no?

I'd be okay with that if they made it blindingly clear that he was drunk, too. It's not my ideal version of their reunion, but I could live with it. :)

I don't see it as (statutory) rape if drunk Buffy and drunk guy had sex, because I dunno...maybe it's wrong, but I just thought that was a normal thing. A mistake that party goers make sometimes, something that just happens. You get drunk, you see something you like and the drunk guy wants it too and in the morning you both regret, but...maybe I'm too liberal? I just don't see it as a big deal.

Oh, no, I totally agree that it's not rape (statutory or otherwise) if they're both drunk! I should have been clearer. I would be completely fine with the conception if it happened while both Buffy and the father were completely intoxicated.

[tennyo-elf.livejournal.com]

It is a bit of a surprise, honestly. Spike on the show wasn't very happy much, so I think that showed when he drank. This Spike seems happier, more comfortable in his own skin so to speak. It would be the first time we would see him being happily drunk at a party filled with fun. In my experience with alcohol, my current state of mind determines if I became a happy/fun drunk or mean/crazy one... :s

Oh, god, yes. When I first read issue 1 my gut reaction was hoping it wasn't Spike because that's the last reunion I would want for them in canon. But when I thought about it, it would seem very spuffy. It's not perfect, which their history is filled with imperfection. To me though, that's what I really like about them, they have perfection because it's imperfect.

Also, I wrote a really bad one shot of season 9 in which Spike and Buffy got drunk and had sex...which I forgot about until recently...seems odd now. =/

With issue 7 just around the corner...maybe all these worries will be replaced with new ones? o.O

[gryfndor-godess.livejournal.com]

This Spike seems happier, more comfortable in his own skin so to speak. It would be the first time we would see him being happily drunk at a party filled with fun.

Yeah, that makes sense that he'd act differently since his sober mindframe is completely different.

With issue 7 just around the corner...maybe all these worries will be replaced with new ones? o.O

Having just read #7...*headdesk*

[tennyo-elf.livejournal.com]

*headdesks with you*