SPn: Thoughts on 4x07 - 4x16, Part 2

[gryfndor_godess]

4x14: “Sex and Violence”: I don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion or not, but I actually liked this episode.  Obviously it had some very problematic, misogynistic elements, but I loved that they used sirens (Dean’s “What, I read.”  Adlfkjaldkfjaldfjladsfjlakdjflkdfjlkfjdf, look at you referencing mythology/literature, you just got even sexier!), and THE BROTHER STUFF, HOO BOY.

So Sam thinks Dean is holding him back.  Wow.  It’s believable, but that doesn’t make it any less…wow.  Oh my gosh, Dean baby.

Okay, I have to say, though, and I felt it again in 4x16: I haven’t gotten the impression that Dean has lost his touch or is holding back.  Is he exhausted and emotionally drained and sick of everything?  Sure.  Who wouldn’t be?  But I don’t feel like he’s been pulling his punches or has lost his nerve/skill.  In fact, at the beginning of one episode, I don’t remember which, Sam even complained that Dean never stopped hunting and was constantly looking for new jobs (which is obviously to assuage his guilt).  I can understand why Sam would feel like he has moved “beyond” Dean now, because of his demon powers, but I don’t think Dean has done anything to encourage that feeling. 

What do you guys think?  Am I missing something?  Just as I thought the show was overblown in telling us Sam had gone dark in S3, I feel like it’s telling us rather than showing us that Dean has lost his edge.

I totally fell for the twist with the siren/FBI agent.  That was excellent and so, so creepy (“…saliva?”).  At the beginning of the episode I figured Dean would get infected by the siren and try to kill Sam, but then I fell for the doctor red herring, hook, line, and sinker.  I love that the siren infected Dean by acting like a little brother instead of a woman.  At the beginning of the episode when I figured Dean would be infected, I couldn’t think what Dean’s perfect woman would be because (a) he’s not very discriminating in his tastes and (b) we know that part of him secretly yearns for a life with someone like Lisa, something familiar and long-term, not a quick hookup.  Dean’s weak spot being a Perfect Little Brother made so much more sense in hindsight considering Sam’s secret-keeping, and ugh, my boys please stop fighting and keeping secrets and be happy together again.

I hate seeing the boys fight. Physically, emotionally- either way it guts me.  Eurgh.  What a painful ending.

Jasmine, Ariel, Aurora, and Belle.  I really wanted one of the boys to pick up on that.  Oh well.  I guess it’s realistic the boys would not have made the connection (when they mention the names and then Dean immediately says “how the hell are we supposed to find her?” I couldn’t tell if the writers were being tongue-in-cheek or not), and maybe they couldn’t be explicit for copyright reasons. 

Oh, and BOBBY PRETENDING TO BE AN FBI DIRECTOR WHILE WEARING AN APRON AND COOKING, PERFECTION.

4x15: “Death Takes a Holiday”:

TESSA TESSA TESSA TESSA TESSA AFKJADLFKJADLFKJALFJALDKFJLADSKFJL.

It was SO GREAT to see her again.  I had completely forgotten that Dean had forgotten his limbo-state memories from 2x01.

Cole was SO GOOD- the actor, the character.  I loved how he was brave and sarcastic and how he cared for his mother and how he taught the boys (“Who’s Mr. Miyagi?” and the boys’ faces- PERFECT!).  He was such a good one-off character.

RIP Pamela.  I never really cared for her one way or the other, except to feel sorry for her because she didn’t deserve anything that happened to her, but I do feel the obligatory frustration at the writers for fridging another female character.  Oy vey.

I freaked out when Alastair revealed himself in the cemetery. I pretty much freak out whenever Alastair is on screen because of what it must do to Dean (which is why I knew 4x16 would be stressful for me).

It was difficult to watch Sam blatantly lie to Cole (and to Dean about getting rid of Alastair).  He has changed so much since S1- mostly in good ways but not all.

AND NOW BACK TO “ON THE HEAD OF A PIN.”

-I AM SO GLAD THAT ALASTAIR IS DEAD.  Dear god was that actor creepy.  He was so, so heinous and perfect for the role.  The character has been a good character, but I am so relieved that he’ll never get his hands on Dean again.  *shudders*

Let’s break this down by character:

DEAN: Oh my god this poor guy cannot catch a break.  He started the apocalypse.  Again, wow.  This show is really punching its audience and characters in the gut this season, no holds barred, and I admire it a lot, no matter how painful it is.  I’m glad there’s a reason Dean was pulled from Hell and that he’s not just a Special Snowflake.  Of course, now he’s a Special Snowflake in the righteous sense because there’s no way he was the first righteous man to go to Hell (heck, we’ve even seen examples of other men who have only made deals to save the lives of their loved ones, like the man with the cancer-stricken wife).  Maybe the demons don’t normally offer their victims the chance to be torturers as well?  I thought that was the case- I thought that was how people became demons- but maybe they were gathering strength to break the other Seals and Dean happened to be the unlucky righteous sod in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Also, that’s bullshit that John is a stronger/better man than Dean.  Bullshit.  Maybe John really withstood the torture or maybe Alastair lied and he was never offered a chance off the rack in the first place, but either way, there’s no way Dean is less of a man than his father.  Humph.

I know saying my heart breaks for Dean is repetitive, but how else can I describe my reaction to that last scene?  Dean started the apocalypse and only he can end it, but he can’t do it, find someone else.  Goddamn, this is depressing television.  I normally don’t watch anything this emotionally traumatizing, but THESE BROTHERS.  I AM ADDICTED TO THEM.  ESPECIALLY DEAN.

I thought this episode dealt with the torture well.  Obviously Dean would initially refuse to torture someone again but just as obviously part of him wanted revenge on Alastair.  I don’t think I have anything insightful to say here.  Seeing Dean break was painful but realistic, and it doesn’t make me think less of him in the slightest.  Jensen was phenomenal.  The only thing I would have liked to see was some mention of Alastair’s human host and what effect the torture would have on him.

Cas: I still don’t care about Cas.  I don’t know why, if he just still needs to grow on me or if I’m subconsciously making myself averse to him because I don’t want to be a Destiel shipper (at this point, I really can’t see Dean as non-heterosexual, and I feel uncomfortable slashing characters if there isn’t canon bi-curiosity.  If the Dean/Cas chemistry ends up being overwhelming, then I might ship it anyway, but right now I don’t see any chemistry).  I know it’s not Misha Collins because I liked him in Ringer.  I just find Cas very boring so far.  His deadpan emotions make sense given what he is, but it does not appeal to me as a character trait. 

I’m also unimpressed by his arc.  He seemed to go from Blindly Obeys Orders And Is A Jerk to Dean to Doubts God’s Plan And Cares For Dean very quickly.  I could see how Dean’s humanity affected him in episodes like “It’s the Great Pumpkin, Sam Winchester,” but it still seems to have all happened rather fast, especially considering that Cas is presumably really old and so shouldn’t be so fundamentally changed after only a few months.  It also bugs me that we see Cas acting “human” and showing emotion only when Uriel is around to act as a foil.  Meh.  I don’t dislike Cas, but he is extremely disappointing so far and I could definitely do without him.  (And now because I said that, in a few weeks I’ll be like, “I LOVE YOU CAS, OMG, FANGIR FLAIL!)

Anna: FAVORITE ANGEL, I LOVE YOU, NEVER CHANGE. 

“Maybe.  Or maybe not.  But there’s still me.”

Aaldfjaldfjladkfjlsadfjladfjlaksdfjasdf, PERFECTION CAN’T TOUCH THIS, NOTHING MORE NEEDS BE SAID.

Uriel: I am actually disappointed that he turned out to be a bad guy, because even though he wasn’t pleasant, I thought he was a good foil for Cas, and I liked that an angel could be such a jerk and still be on our side; I liked how thoroughly he demonstrated that angels weren’t sweet, halo-wearing, harp-playing stereotypes.  Also, WAY TO MAKE ONE OF YOUR ONLY PoC A BAD GUY AND KILL HIM OFF, SHOW, UGH.

Sam: I was barely surprised when he started drinking Ruby’s blood.  It was like, of course this is how you’re getting stronger, and no wonder the show has been alluding to your activities like a junkie relapsing.  I thought he was just using his powers to strengthen them, like a muscle, but no, he’s actually drinking demon blood on purpose to bulk up.  I love it.  Adds a whole new dimension to Sam/Ruby, too.  I wonder how soon into their relationship the blood-swap started, if it was that very first fuck.  Makes me want to rewatch “I Know What You Did Last Summer."

Lol, I wonder what Jared/Gen's son will make of scenes like this someday...

This reveal makes me more worried about Sam being able to control his slippery slope, but I’m happy he killed Alastair, and he still obviously loves Dean (loved him yelling at Cas in the hospital!), so I’m not too worried (also, I’ve seen 7x05 and he was fine there, so obviously he’s able to climb up said slippery slope eventually…).

Random: You know what is SUPER ANNOYING?  When you look up Jared Padalecki on IMDB because your aunt, who has been a really great sport in letting you fangirl about Dean and even let you show her the Eye of the Tiger video, thinks she’s seen him in something, and IMDB TELLS YOU THAT JARED PLAYS LUCIFER AS WELL AS SAM.  THANKS, IMDB.  THANKS A LOT.  I ACTUALLY WASN'T SPOILED FOR THAT, BELIEVE IT OR NOT.


And because I have a one-track mind: So the more I watch the more I keep having to rethink my Dean/Bela headcanon.  I don’t know if we ever learn more about the people Dean tortured in Hell, but since it’s canon that his first was a “weeping bitch,” I think I’m going to go with it was Bela, unless canon eventually says otherwise, because it makes sense that the demons would know something of their enmity and exploit it, and it makes sense that tortured!Dean would want to hurt the woman who tried to kill him and Sam.  Several of the 38 Dean/Bela fics on AO3 are based on this premise, anyway.

WHY DO I SHIP WHAT I SHIP, TWISTED DYNAMICS AND EMOTIONAL TRAUMA AND GUILT FTW, APPARENTLY.  THIS SHIP IS NOT EVEN CANONICALLY POSSIBLE WHY CAN’T I LIKE NORMAL THINGS *HEADDESK*.

Comments

[ever-neutral.livejournal.com]

Also, that’s bullshit that John is a stronger/better man than Dean.  Bullshit.

Seriously. It's just validating John's not remotely special brand of patriarchal emotional abuse. Whatever.

And yesssssss to all your Dean thoughts. One of the best Dean episodes of the entire series, all of the ~feelings.

and I feel uncomfortable slashing characters if there isn’t canon bi-curiosity.

Not to invalidate your uncomfortableness, but I guess my problem here is - how many characters on TV are actually portrayed as non-hetero? The writers are never gonna go there on this show, that's a near-certainty.

And re: Dean/Cas, it's not really a sexual tension "it could happen" thing so much as a narrative "what their characters do for each other's development" thing. Which, obviously, I feel differently about Cas's arc. *g*

Oy, sorry about the accidental spoilage. If it helps, I don't think that particular bit of info is as big a deal as it seems?

[gryfndor-godess.livejournal.com]

Not to invalidate your uncomfortableness, but I guess my problem here is - how many characters on TV are actually portrayed as non-hetero? The writers are never gonna go there on this show, that's a near-certainty.

I realize that's one of the reasons slash exists and why it should exist, and that's why I said it makes me uncomfortable rather than that I think it's wrong. There are certainly some slash ships I'm partial, too, like Raj/Howard and Kirk/Spock, but in general I feel weird changing characters' professed sexuality. I don't think slashing a het character is damaging/offensive the way making an LGBT character het would be (e.g., shipping Tara with a man), but in most cases I still prefer to leave sexuality to canon (there's also the exploitative fetishization of m/m relationships by female shippers and some studios that makes me side-eye a few specific fandoms, but that's another issue).

Which, obviously, I feel differently about Cas's arc. *g*

Well, to be fair, I haven't seen much of said arc yet. *g*

If it helps, I don't think that particular bit of info is as big a deal as it seems?

Oh heh, it's fine, thanks. If I didn't know that Dean and Cas had major impacts on each other's development, I would actually be the most oblivious person on Tumblr on the planet. :)

[pocochina.livejournal.com]

I liked Sex & Violence too, to be honest. I thought it actually did some interesting things in blurring the lines of what people think they want in terms of sexual/emotional intimacy.

Jasmine, Ariel, Aurora, and Belle.

OH MY GOD HOW DID I MISS THAT. aaaah! I love it.

I haven’t gotten the impression that Dean has lost his touch or is holding back. Is he exhausted and emotionally drained and sick of everything? Sure. Who wouldn’t be? But I don’t feel like he’s been pulling his punches or has lost his nerve/skill. In fact, at the beginning of one episode, I don’t remember which, Sam even complained that Dean never stopped hunting and was constantly looking for new jobs

Ah. I think this is an unreliable narrator thing. Sam idealizes Dean, he always has. But after those few months where he was on his own, I think he simply sees Dean more clearly now - that at least some of the fearless tough guy business is an act. But instead of attributing it to a shift in his own perspective, he decides that his Dean Ideal is correct, and it's just the hell stuff tacking Dean down from being as strong as Sam imagined before. (I think there's some role reversal going on? Before, it was Dean taking that kind of patronizing attitude that Sam needed to be coddled because he was the baby; now it's Sam deciding that Dean is weak and wounded from hell.)

BOBBY PRETENDING TO BE AN FBI DIRECTOR WHILE WEARING AN APRON AND COOKING, PERFECTION.

I loved that touch too!

that’s bullshit that John is a stronger/better man than Dean. Bullshit.

lol, preaching to the choir. And yeah, I thought Alastair was lying to fuck with him, too.

at this point, I really can’t see Dean as non-heterosexual, and I feel uncomfortable slashing characters if there isn’t canon bi-curiosity

mmmm. Dean scans to me like someone who's bi-preferring-dudes and REALLY NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT, because of how he was raised in this hyper-masculine world. I don't think he...doesn't like the ladies? Any more than I think he secretly dislikes the music or the coat or any of the rest of it. But it's always struck me as more important to him for the performance itself, rather than something he would choose on his own.

I could do the whole bit but ~spoilers.

Completely agreed on Anna and Uriel, though I love Cas with a love.

since it’s canon that his first was a “weeping bitch,” I think I’m going to go with it was Bela

I THINK SO TOO.

[gryfndor-godess.livejournal.com]

blurring the lines of what people think they want in terms of sexual/emotional intimacy.

The twist with Dean was so great, and problematic as the set-up was, I even appreciated how the episode emphasized that the men knew, once the spell wore off, that they really wanted their wives and not the stripper-fantasy.

aaaah! I love it.

:D When Dean was like, "How the hell are we supposed to find her?", I was thinking, "Um...you introduce yourself to strippers and see which one calls herself Snow White?"

Ah. I think this is an unreliable narrator thing. Sam idealizes Dean, he always has. But after those few months where he was on his own, I think he simply sees Dean more clearly now - that at least some of the fearless tough guy business is an act. But instead of attributing it to a shift in his own perspective...

Ooh, this makes so much sense. And the writers seem to confirm it in 4x18 when Chuck questions Sam drinking demon blood and suggests he's doing it to feel stronger and more in control.

I could do the whole bit but ~spoilers.

Well, I would be interested in hearing more later!

I THINK SO TOO.

IT WOULD JUST MAKE EVERYTHING MORE PAINFUL, SO OF COURSE IT HAPPENED.

And I just rewatched "Red Sky at Morning," and Dean says, "I'm not gonna kill her, I think slow torture is the way to go" (emphasis mine). !!! There's so much foreshadowing in this episode that isn't apparent the first time through!